[mudbug]

What do you propose that we do, now and in the future to fix traffic?

You have been fast to suggest ways now, but not for the growing demand?

Please enlighten us with how you would solve the traffic problem.

[vikingsfan68]

1. Fix problems as they arise, such as widening I-12 and 190.
2. Never use eminent domain for road projects. The City of Anaheim, CA has done very well using market forces to acquire needed property.
3. If you want to build a speculative project such as a loop, see #2.

[mudbug]

When we run of right-of-way on I-12 and 190, then what? Widening 190 in Denham will involve right of way aquisition (eminant domain) already.

And the loop isn't looking to bulldoze houses and neighborhoods, but forest and farmland before the developers take them over and cause more traffic problems.

[vikingsfan68]

The point is that if you want the land bad enough, then pay what the owner asks. Do not use the power of government to force someone off of his land. Have you ever noticed that none of these projects ever moves Kip Holden, Cleo Fields, or Kathleen Blanco out of their houses? Wonder why. Also, my right to my property does not have to be justified for me to maintain it. I can do something, or nothing, with my land. That is literally what makes our country so different from socialist nations. When you start talking about me giving up land for the good of everyone else, please understand that you are talking more like a Canadian than an American. And you might want to check the loop maps. Bulldozing houses will happen if the loop happens.

[BR Today]

The point is that if you want the land bad enough, then pay what the owner asks. Do not use the power of government to force someone off of his land. Have you ever noticed that none of these projects ever moves Kip Holden, Cleo Fields, or Kathleen Blanco out of their houses? Wonder why. Also, my right to my property does not have to be justified for me to maintain it. I can do something, or nothing, with my land. That is literally what makes our country so different from socialist nations. When you start talking about me giving up land for the good of everyone else, please understand that you are talking more like a Canadian than an American. And you might want to check the loop maps. Bulldozing houses will happen if the loop happens.

If we went by your standards, we'd all be walking to work across eachother's property because no one would sell their land to build any roads. Sacrificing property to the city/parish is the only way to build roads and upgrade current thoroughfares. But like mudbug said, the loop isn't plowing through any neighborhoods and the government isn't coming in, guns drawn, and running anyone off. Sure some people are going to get bought out and have to relocate, but that happens every day. Just a few years back in my old neighborhood on Joor, 2 houses were bought by the city parish (at a pretty fair price if you ask me) to make way for the widening of Joor. The 2 families there didn't act like it was Hitler running them out. They accepted fair market value for their homes and moved to new homes. It would be nice for the city parish to come offer me fair market value for my house plus pay all my moving expenses. Especially with the way the housing market is NOW.

[vikingsfan68]

Are you kidding? In Livingston parish, people would sell their family cemetery if they thought they could develop a subdivision and get rich. You are assuming that no one is ever interested in selling land, but by your own statement you would be interested. People would often gladly sell, and even bid lower against neighbors if government expressed an interest in their land. And, your comment that government takings "happen every day" is meaningless; murder happens every day, but that doesn't make it right.

[BR Today]

Are you kidding? In Livingston parish, people would sell their family cemetery if they thought they could develop a subdivision and get rich. You are assuming that no one is ever interested in selling land, but by your own statement you would be interested. People would often gladly sell, and even bid lower against neighbors if government expressed an interest in their land. And, your comment that government takings "happen every day" is meaningless; murder happens every day, but that doesn't make it right.

Murder is illegal. The growth of a capital city and the trials and tribulations that go along with it, is not. Certainly you aren't comparing apples and oranges, are you? Again, the government doesn't take anything. They pay fair market value along with all relocation expenses (in most cases) for those displaced by growth. Don't make this look like Hitler is marching through the proposed loop route and throwing innocent citizens out in the street. On your way to work tomorrow, try and count how many different people have sold their land to the city to make the road you're travelling down. Do you use the interstate at all? If so, why? That road was put there to make it easier to get from O'Neal lane to downtown Baton Rouge instead of using Florida Blvd. Weren't there some people displaced when it was built? Does it make you a hypocrite for using the interstate? Not at all, its an expedited route built to suit the needs of a growing city. Like I said, it happens somewhere every day and will continue to do so to keep up with urban and suburban growth. Check out the Central Thruway project. Won't it be nice to be at the interstate in 10 minutes now instead of the usual 25? Is anyone crying over that issue? I haven't heard anything except "please hurry and get this project done to benefit the city of central".

[mudbug]

Most people are understanding about buyout when it comes to projects like this. Usually eminent domain comes in when someone is asking twice or three times the market price because they know their property is on the path of a new road. Is that fair for someone to hold up a project and extort a state (and basically their neighbors who pay taxes) because they know they can?
No one who is working on the loop has even mentioned eminent domain. They are looking at many different routes right now in order to make the loop more effective, restrict the number of houses and properties that have to be acquired, and to hear what the people are willing to pay for.

By the way, congratulations, it looks like you are going to get your "quick fix". The Advocate is reporting that DOTD is going to use any surplus the state gives them next year (this year's surplus is going to widen I-10) to widening I-12 to Walker. Just don't complain about the traffic while they widen it.

So once again, how do we plan for the next twenty years?

[vikingsfan68]

Do you really believe that loop developers don't intend to use eminent domain? They haven't mentioned eminent domain, and a lot of other things, like where the loop will go or who intends to invest in it. And again, ask me in 20 years which roads need to be built or widened, because that's when we will really know.

[vikingsfan68]

My point was clearly not to compare eminent domain with murder; my point was that your argument of "it happens every day" is without merit. Do you know which former landowners on the interstate corridor sold out willingly? Which ones were forced? Me either. But, there is a world of difference between the two. I am certain that eminent domain is abused; I have never heard an elected official cry out that his house had been taken against his will. As a protection against this abuse, I believe that we must protect landowners who don't have political power or money by leaving acquisitions up to the market. Is it less efficient? Yes. But, I will gladly add 15 minutes to my drive to Central to know that some retired couple did not have to give up their homes for my convenience.